Celtic Women

 

Celtic Workshop #15 - "The Celtic Women"

This workshop deals primarily with the role of Women in ancient Celtic life. I tried to give a feel for the position and the interrelationships of Women with Men during the early times. Women were much more "liberated" and powerful in Celtic society than they were in other European civilizations of the time and up until quite recently. This equality was due to the
exercising of their own Power on the part of the Women IMVHO. It was not given to them, they demanded their rights and they earned them. This system of rights went all the way to the top of society from the bottom and included the Power to rule. Marriages and relationships were particularly equal and treated fairly by the Brehon laws. Before we started we had a brief period of socialization. We also discussed tartans and birthdays a bit.<G>

(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok Guys/gals/entities...lets get started
(2-6,Snowball) may I ask a question?
(2-5,cherokee) oh i thought we were
(2-5,cherokee) just partying od!
(2-6,Snowball) what is the meaning of tartan
(2-11,Freepowder) tartan is the stuff you put on fish
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) snowball> we just came from a costume conference!
(2-11,Freepowder) tartan sauce
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) FP> <groan>
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) Tartan is what they call the fabric pattern used
by scots these days.
(2-11,Freepowder) or a rare disease in which your teeth go plaid
(2-15,O'Dubhain) <-----I'm not really into tartans.
(2-5,cherokee) GGG
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Are you out of them, OD <tartans, that is>???
(2-6,Snowball) well, but what about celtic magic AND tartans?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) My tartans are all wraparounds!<G>
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) Note: the present clan designations go back only
to the early 19th century
(2-11,Freepowder) <---has Clan Lamont tie with matching breechclout
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) Tartan was worn a bit earlier, but it was _not_ clan
specific as we have it today.
(2-16,Trailstalker) SB: You might want to check with the genealogy forum.
I got a ton of help tracing my scottish roots and
clan affiliations there.
(2-5,cherokee) oooh! sexy free can i
(2-5,cherokee) peek?
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Hey - cool info, J&M. I didn't know that!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Snowball>The only Celtic Magical association I'm
aware of with tartans is The Ogham of Tartans and I
really haven't done much work in that area.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) J&M> The fact is the number of colors
one had in one's clothing was determined by your
class ranking. The King had 7 colors and the Druids 6,
down to the serfs/slaves with only one color
(Usually saffron).
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) SB> there are various people in the living history
forum who would be happy to discuss tartans at length
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) Rhianna> Glad to be of help
(2-11,Freepowder) <---had one color in his tartan, makes a boring plaid
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) FP> hahaha
(2-14,Nancy) Hi ya'll. Sorry I'm late.
(2-11,Freepowder) <---puce
(2-6,Snowball) I heard something about secret sign of interconection
everything with everything in pagan celtic religion,
but am too far from scotts
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) OD>Yes, but this does not specify that the colours be
in a plaid
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Hiya nancy!
(2-14,Nancy) too rhianna! hello there.
(2-5,cherokee) hey nancy1
(2-15,O'Dubhain) No It doesn't
(2-11,Freepowder) Irish prefered stripes I believe
(2-14,Nancy) nancy1?
(2-12,Nan) (looking at clock)........(looking as stuff to be
packed).......sigh
(2-15,O'Dubhain) They are usually referenced as "speckled"
(2-12,Nan) i oughta be outta here......download this workshop
later i guess
(2-5,cherokee) is there really a topic
(2-5,cherokee) od?
(2-14,Nancy) Nan, hi!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) anyway let's get started on the formal presentaion
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Do ya have to go, nan? See ya later!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) and discuss these other topics later
(2-12,Nan) wish I could stay for what I'm sure will be another
really interesting one O"D
(2-5,cherokee) bye nan!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Going to formal CO mode here
(2-16,Trailstalker) bye nan. Take care.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok Nan!
(2-12,Nan) yeah, i really do.....bye all.....hugs to any
who want 'em
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Oiche mhaith dhuit!
(2-14,Nancy) Night, Nan.
(2-14,Nancy) OD?
(2-11,Freepowder) Night nan
(2-14,Nancy) OD?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Yes Nancy?
(2-11,Freepowder) recording OD?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) yes FP.
(2-14,Nancy) Before we go into formal conference?
(2-14,Nancy) Have just one question first, and it does relate to
(2-14,Nancy) Gaelic.
(2-14,Nancy) whatever the spelling.
(2-14,Nancy) Can I ask it?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) sure
(2-14,Nancy) How does one say Happy Birthday in Gaelic?
(2-14,Nancy) Od?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) La Breithe faoi Shonas Duit!
(2-14,Nancy) Aahh, thank you. FP, do you have that recorded?
(2-11,Freepowder) got it!
(2-16,Trailstalker) <GGG>
(2-14,Nancy) OK, ready to start,<G<G>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Thanks!<G>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Before I begin a few quick remarks are
(2-15,O'Dubhain) in order. As always, if any of you have
(2-15,O'Dubhain) a comment or a question please use the
(2-15,O'Dubhain) "?" or "!" to signal me. I will answer
(2-15,O'Dubhain) or call on you in sequence and we will
(2-15,O'Dubhain) use "ga" to signal we have finished our
(2-15,O'Dubhain) remarks. Now we begin......

(2-15,O'Dubhain) Tonight I want to discuss a topic that
is dear to my heart. Not only is it
exciting and provocative, but it is also
inspiring and enlightening. It's a topic
about Celtic nobility, daring and beauty.
It's about honor and daring, warriors and
strength. It's one of my favorite topics
in the whole world!. In short, tonight
I'm discussing Celtic Women!<G>

(2-15,O'Dubhain) Celtic women were many things: warriors,
queens, mystics, prophets, poets, Druids,
musicians and mothers. In all that they did,
they matched or exceeded their men as they
worked, loved, fought and embraced life in
their joy at being themselves. The Celtic
women we shall discuss tonight are those
that lived before Christianity was placed
about their necks like a yoke. I will tell
you the tales of those noble Celtic Women,
the women of ancient Ireland, Britain, Gaul,
Scotland and Wales. Let us start with a
quote from the Roman historian Ammianus
Marcellinus found in Nora Chadwick's book
"The Celts":

"A whole troup of foreigners would
not be able to withstand a single
Gaul if he called his wife to his
assistance who is usually very strong
and with blue eyes; especially when,
swelling her meck, gnashing her teeth,
and brandishing her sallow arms of
enourmous size, she begins to strike
blows mingled with kicks, as if they
were so many missles sent from the
string of a catapult."

(2-15,O'Dubhain) It was the custom of Celtic women to go
into battle alongside their men (a custom
that lasted until around 700 CE in Ireland).
Even when they were only performing a
supporting role, as mentioned by Plutarch
in a reference to a battle between the
Cimbry and the Romans, they were very
fierce. The Cimbric women were in the camp
preparing a meal when the fleeing Cimbric
men arrived persued by the Romans:

"Here the women met them, holding
swords and axes in their hands.
With hideous shrieks of rage they
tried to drive back the hunted and
the hunters. The fugitives as
deserters, the pursuers as foes.
With bare hands the women tore away
the shields of the Romans or grasped
their swords, enduring mutilating
wounds. The ir fierce spirit
unvanquished to the end."

(2-15,O'Dubhain) Women were accorded a high status in
ancient Ireland. They are commonly
mentioned as filling the positions
of Druids, poets, physicians, sages,
and lawgivers. Even Amergin, the Bard,
son of Mile, and chief Druid of the Gael
asks for the aid of the wives of Breas
and Buaigne to aid him and the Mileseans
in reaching Eirinn against a Magical
storm raised by the Tuatha de Danann.
The high regard for women is also
seen in the fact that many times a person
might be referred to as the son or
daughter of the mother rather than the
father. The great king in the Tain of
Ulster, Connor mac Nessa is an excellent
example of this (with the wise advice
of his mother, he is able to secure
election as the King of Ulster.)
The Picts even went so far as to
pass inheritances through the female.
This extended up to the ruling family
which was matrilocal as well as
matrilinear. It was not, however,
matriarchal.

(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) ?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok J & M ga
(2-16,Trailstalker) !
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) Sorry to interrupt, but what does "matrilocal" mean?
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) It means that the customs were confined to a local
area or sphere of influence and not on a location by
location basis.
(2-5,cherokee) when a man marries he
(2-5,cherokee) goes to live in his
(2-5,cherokee) wifes village
(2-5,cherokee) sory od
(2-15,O'Dubhain) That's ok, I like your input better than mine, Cher!<G>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ***************O'Dubhain O'Gram!**********************
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ***Boy did I blow this definition!!! Cherokeee ***
***is absolutely right. This is a great example of ***
***the sharing of information that we achieve in ***
***our Workshops!<G>....S.O'D ***
******************************************************
(2-5,cherokee) anthro minor.
(2-5,cherokee) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) <bow>
(2-5,cherokee) ggg
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ok TS has a comment ga
(2-16,Trailstalker) I was just going to add that it wasn't just celts
or even american indian tribes who practice this...
(2-16,Trailstalker) Many socities and cultures passed through the mother's
line because that birth lineage could be "proven".
(2-16,Trailstalker) The father didn't even enter into it.
(2-16,Trailstalker) A male relative would hold the place of masculinity
for the child.
(2-16,Trailstalker) I think we're seeing a return to this as more and more
babies are "born out of wedlock" and as american women
are getting away from this wife as property idea that
christianity brought us.
(2-16,Trailstalker) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Thanks TS....as we can see, the Celts and the
Celtic women practiced a fairly loose family
structure. Children typically had several father
images.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) now back to the presentation.
<g>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) The Brehon laws of early Ireland also
insured women a near equally with men,
though, at times, truly superior women
forced the ancient Gaels to admit the
superiority of women to men in many
cases. Bridget, the lawgiver, Medb of
Connacht, or Emer, wife of Cuchullain,
are just a few examples of such superior
women. In the Crith Gablach, a set of
rules covering the priveledges of the
noble classes, the right of every wife
to be consulted on every subject by her
husband is mandated. Women were
considered to have an equal footing
with men in regards to property acquired
after their marriage. Voluntary consent
of both was required to dispose
of marriage property. The wife remained
sole owner of any property she held prior
to the marriage. Men were given preference
for the inheriting of land but daughters
were given coibche, marriage portion,
in the form of gold, silver, animals or
household items. If there were no sons,
the daughter inherited all. If a woman
held the land and did not go into battle
as was required by law, she had to provide
and pay for a warrior to go in her place.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) It was at the Synod of Tara in 697 CE
that St. Adamnan established the Ca'in
Adamnan that exempted women from warfare.
It is with the rise of the power of the
Christian Church that the rights of women
seem diminished in Irish history, but
that is another story for another
workshop. I suggest reading Mary Condren's
book "The Serpent and the Goddess" for
information on the oppression of women
by the Christian Church. Tonight I want to
tell the tales of heroic, brave and beautiful
Celtic women!

(2-15,O'Dubhain) "Macha"

Macha is a semi-mythical figure in Irish
history and legend. This means that she is
an arch type for women and an example of
a priciple for all to see. Sometimes she is
used to teach lessons about commonly held
Irish beliefs. Many times she is portrayed
as a War Goddess and at other times as
the Goddess of Sovereignty. Macha has many
incarnations and is not entirely of this
world, but is also a woman of the Sidhe.
The great circular fortress of Ulster,
Emain Macha was named for her. One tale has
her inheriting a part of the rulership of
Ireland from her father, Hugh Roe (Red Hugh)
but only after she had bested the five sons
of Dithorba to assume the throne. Another
tale tells how she was forced to race a pair
of the King's horses following a boast by her
husband Crundchu that she was more swift than
the swiftest of horses. Crunchu was seized by
the king's men and threatened with death if
she did did not race. Macha, who was
pregnant with twins outraced the horses
but died after the race while giving birth
to twins. She cursed the men of Ulster
saying that in their hours of greatest
need they too would feel the "pangs" of
childbirth for a period of five days and
four nights each time they were attacked,
until the ninth generation from the one
that was present upon that day. This curse
was to be felt by the men of Ulster when
Queen Medb invaded with her armies from
Connacht to seize the Brown Bull of
Quelgny. It is this tale that is called
the "Tain Bo Cuailgne'" and contains the
saga of Cuchullain.

(2-15,O'Dubhain) "Scathach"

Scathach was a mighty warrior woman that ran
a school for the training in arms of young
Gaelic heros. This training and school were
located upon the Isle of Skye (named for
Scathach). It was here that the young
Cuchullain and Ferdia mac Damain received
their arms instruction. Scathach waged a
war against another warrior woman Aife
while Ferdia and Cuchullain were her
students. During the fiercest part of the
fray, she was challenged to single combat
by Aife (a custom among Celts to resolve
battles). Cuchullain demanded the right
to meet Aife instead and was allowed to do
so by Scathach. They tried every champion's
feat known on one another in vain until
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Aife shattered Cuchullain's sword in his
hand down to the hilt. Cuchullain was only
able to pull off a victory by trickery,
since Aife's prowess at arms was so great.
(Though Aife and Cuchullain evidently
forgave one another later. They were lovers
and she bore his son Conor. In fact, this
might be a good time to mention that Celtic
women were very sexually liberated and
frequently had relationships with more than
one man. Another interesting fact is that
women were viewed as more desirable for
marriage if they had already had children.
Children were frequently fostered and raised
by more than one father.) Traditionally,
warrior training lasted for a year and a
day under such a warrior woman and teacher.

(2-15,O'Dubhain) "Boudica"

Hear the words of the British Warrior Queen
Boudica to her assembled warriors as she
prepared for battle with the Roman legions
under Paullinus (remarks given by Tacitus
and found in Tim Newark's excellent book
"Women Warlords"),

"This is not the first time the Britons
have been led into battle by a woman,
but I do not take arms merely to boast
of an ancient lineage or even to regain
my kingdom and possessions. I fight.
like the humblest warrior among you,
to assert my liberty and seek revenge
for the physical outrages wrought upon
myself and my daughters. For the proud,
arrogant Romans hold nothing sacred.
Everyone is victim to their violation.
Old women like me endure the scourge
and virgins are raped. Look around and
view your numbers.Behold the proud
display and consider the motives for
drawing your sword. this ground we
must either conquer or die with glory.
There is no alternative. Although a
woman, my decision is made. The men,
if they wish, may survive in shame and
live in bondage."

(2-15,O'Dubhain) She had been captured and tormented, her
daughters had been raped by the Roman
soldiers and her people were being oppressed
and exploited. These are the reasons why
Boudica rode forth into battle in her
chariot with upraised spear and her two
daughters, tawny hair flowing out behind.
Though she had several victories in her
fights with the Romans, the superior
discipline, weapons and armor of the Roman
legions eventually prevailed and her army
was defeated. She took poison rather than
allow herself to be captured alive. As a
result of her rebellion and the heavy
handed oppressions of Paullinus, peace
was eventually negotiated between Rome
and Briton.

(2-15,O'Dubhain) "Brighid"

Brighid was not only known in ancient
times as the Triple Goddess of Ireland,
but was also known as a patron Saint. She
was alternately described as the daughter
of the Dagdha and of a Druid. She was once
on the verge of being sold into slavery
by her father because she gave away too
much of his wealth to the poor. When
the king discovered how generous she was,
he balked at having her in his own
household, fearing she would also give
away his wealth. Brighid was saved from
slavery by her own acts of kindness. She
established a temple under an Oak tree in
Kildare (Cill Dara or "Church of the Oak")
where she and a company of eight women
tended a sacred flame for women. These
nine women were called the "Women of the
Judgements", and also acted as advisors
to the wife of the King. She mediated
many disputes prevented many wars, which
she opposed strongly. According to Mary
Condren, Brighid was also said to have
celibrated the early Irish Eucharist and
to have been ordained a bishop of the
Celtic Catholic Church by Bishop Mel who
declared, "This virgin alone in Ireland
will hold the episcopal ordination."
(2-15,O'Dubhain) It is clear that the Irish/Celtic respect
for women carried over into the early
history of the Celtic Catholic Church
(circa 500 CE). An interesting parallel
can be drawn between Brighid and the
British Guinevere (or Gwenhwyfar) who
in the earliest versions of the Arturian
legend is described as the Triple
Gwenhwyfar. Her three aspects are as:
the Flower Bride, The Lady of the Lake
and the Washer at the Ford. It is also
interesting to note that both ladies
eventually find their way to convents
and/or holy sacred sites for women
(Avalon and Kildare respectively).
(2-14,Nancy) !
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Another interesting fact about
Gwenhwyfar is that she was never
mentioned as being unfaithful to
Arthur with Lancelot (or anyone else)
in the early telling of her story.
The matter of infidelity was introduced
in a tale from the twelfth century, some
6 to 700 years after the events
surrounding the legend. Both women are
uniquely tied into the mythos and the
destinies of their peoples.

(2-15,O'Dubhain) A healthy respect and worship of the
Triple Goddess surrounded the lives
of the ancient Celts and gave them a
unique appreciation for the abilities,
powers and talents of Celtic Women. We
would do well to study their ways and
to follow their lead today.

(2-15,O'Dubhain) That's the end of the formal presentation.
I'd like to open the floor
to questions, comments or general
discussions,
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Nancy has a comment
(2-11,Freepowder) ?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ga
(2-14,Nancy) Just a quick aside. There are many, many women in
the early Catholic Church who were quite powerful.
For some reason, their names have,
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) ?
(2-14,Nancy) shall we say, vanished, from recorded Church History.
(2-16,Trailstalker) !
(2-14,Nancy) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I agree with you Nancy....seems the
early Church rewrote some of their
history....but we can get into that
in another workshop more deeply.
ok?
(2-14,Nancy) Of course, OD, my dear. It was a *quick* aside!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) FP> ga
(2-11,Freepowder) Wasn't Morrigan also known as 'the washer at the ford'?
(2-11,Freepowder) GA
(2-15,O'Dubhain) FP>yes she was
(2-11,Freepowder) with sinister overtones? GA
(2-15,O'Dubhain) he Morrigan was Probably the best know of the
"washers at the ford" but not the only one.
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) ?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) If a man saw the washer at the ford....
it meant he would die in battle that day.
(2-16,Trailstalker) ?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ok I have the following order here
Rhianna then TS then J&M then TS again
Ga Rhiann/Golias
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) I am only familiar with Brighid as the triple Goddess. I
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) never heard of her as a historical figure - am I
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) understanding that she was, and lived c. 500 CE? if so,
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) how did she come to be connected with the triple
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Goddess aspects?ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) There was an early saint of the Celtic
Church known as St. Brighid born 454CE
and died 523CE....She was said to have
received St. Patricks confession and
to make Christianity more acceptable
to the Pagan Irish...many of the attributes
of the Triple Brighid/Goddess of the Sidhe
were blurred into the life of St. Brighid.
(2-14,Nancy) !
(2-15,O'Dubhain) The Irish even considered her to be
the foster mother of Christ.
I think the blurring was something
the Irish did naturally since they already
believed in Reincarnation.
We will get into this more as we talk about
the Christianizing of the Celts in the next workshop.
Ok Trailstalker ga
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Got it! thanks OD
(2-16,Trailstalker) First, just a comment... I find it interesting that
the English church (post celtic christian) has just
ordained it's first set of women as priests...
and the roman catholic church/pope is having a hissy
fit and saying NO WAY JOSE. The more things change
....
(2-16,Trailstalker) ... ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I know...that in the US ordination of women
by the Episcopal church caused a lot of turmoil
as well...but everyone seems to be adapting well
and no thunderbolts have struck anyone yet!<G>
(2-16,Trailstalker) One of the comments I heard about them was those
"bloody bitches" from one of the incensed clergy
(2-11,Freepowder) *ZOT*
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Too bad for him!!!
I guess he'll just have to adapt!:)
(2-16,Trailstalker) Yeah.
(2-16,Trailstalker) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok J&M ga
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) re: the washers at the ford, didn't they signify the
death of the one who's clothing was being washed,
rather than the viewer? (GA, then one more ?)
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok....that's right but as I recall the person viewing
the washer was usually the one that was gonna die
anyway!<G>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ga J&M
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) The other question: Could you provide me with your
sources for info on the Picts?
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I can....right now I'm trying to remember which book
I pulled that particular tidbit out of. There are
several sources referring to the Matrilineal
practices of the Picts.
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) No rush, but I'd like to check them out...GA

****** Nora Chadwick "The Celts" *******
(inserted later by S. O'D)
(2-15,O'Dubhain) The Irish sources usually say the Picts were given
Irish wives and that is why the Irish insisted the
Picts pass inheritances through the Mother...
but of course the Picts say otherwise!<G>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Celts!
I'll get you the info soon.
TS another ?
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ga
(2-16,Trailstalker) Is Morrigan another version of Morgaine/Morgana/
Morgan le Fey? The biblical Mary Magdelene of the
historic foot washing? ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I don't think that we can really equate that
group very well. The Morrigan is a Goddess...
Morgana was a Witch/Sorceress and MM was
a reformed prostitute/female apostle
(2-8,Papa John) !
(2-15,O'Dubhain) who was cut out of the priesthood/succession
by the same early Church kleaders that
were so awful about other matters of Feminine Power.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok Nancy then Papa John...ga Nancy
(2-14,Nancy) Don't need to anymore, OD. Already answered.
(2-14,Nancy) ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ok ga Papa John
(2-8,Papa John) !Sorry OD, but there is NO evidence MM was a prostitute,
(2-8,Papa John) though I agree w/ rest.
(2-16,Trailstalker) !
(2-15,O'Dubhain) ga TS
(2-16,Trailstalker) IMHO the Virgin Mary and Mary Magadelene
(2-16,Trailstalker) are the dual faces of the Goddess in the Mother/Lover
role...
(2-16,Trailstalker) ...just a thought. GA
(2-8,Papa John) Nice point.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I always though that Barbara Hershey did
a great job of being a prostitute
(2-14,Nancy) OD!!!!!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) in the Last Temptation of Christ!<GGG>
I will have to look in my occult Xtian book for
(2-8,Papa John) True, but that's Kazantzikis' point of view!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) a reference on MM
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Nancy ga
(2-16,Trailstalker) like I said... just food for thought <G>
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) !
(2-8,Papa John) Look at Asimov as well!
(2-14,Nancy) Just plain OD!!!!! it was Barbara Hershy SEAGULL.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Nancy she changed her name back
(2-14,Nancy) I said it *was*
(2-15,O'Dubhain) to plain ole Barbara Hershey
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok Rhianna/Golias ga
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Lately, I've been hearing talk that MM was really Jesus'
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) legal wife, and it makes sense to me! not totally
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) convinced yet, but considering. And that she was really
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) the chosen successor of JC, as in spreading the gospel.
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) GA
(2-16,Trailstalker) !
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I saw a reference to this in the book "Holy Blood
Holy Grail", I think, but never saw any additional
info on it.
(2-8,Papa John) From Nag Hammadi.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) <still looking in Xtian book for MM reference>:)
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) I read it in something recently issued by Aidan Kelly.
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Some of his stuff is pretty weird, but its certainly
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) interesting. ga
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I have those references as well.
Now I'm INTRIGUED!<G>
TS ga
(2-16,Trailstalker) R/G> That could be part of the comment in the book
of revelation re: the return to power of "the great
whore". Could also mean the reempowerment of the
Goddess/Earth Mother religions and overthrow of the
partiarchical misognistic christian church
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Yee Haw!!!
(2-16,Trailstalker) I mean think about it\
(2-8,Papa John) 'Nother good point!
(2-16,Trailstalker) the keys of the kingdom being passed to JC's WIFE a
WOMAN, instead of "saint" peter.
(2-16,Trailstalker) There goes the catholic church right down the old
toilet!
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) TS> Yes, that's it exactly! Pretty wild, in the context of
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) our society ...
(2-16,Trailstalker) <I'm an ex seminary student <GGG>
(2-14,Nancy) Now TS, not neccessarily! ONly down the drain for the
partriarchal men!
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) but put into a correct historical perspective (history as
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) told by someone other than the Christians ...)
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) It makes sense!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) <-----Glad he's a NewAge Man!<GGG>
(2-16,Trailstalker) like I said... the Catholic Church... it's ALL
patriarchical men... <G>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Other comments folks?
(2-16,Trailstalker) !
(2-15,O'Dubhain) TS ga
(2-16,Trailstalker) Yeah... I got a "parting shot" so to speak. We as
new age celtic (whatever we call ourselves) have a
responsibility as we "see" the truth to put it out
there. We got a LOT of work to do and alot of old
boy ideas to overcome.
(2-16,Trailstalker) HOWEVER... we have to also remember to do it
IN BALANCE
(2-16,Trailstalker) the only way things really work is men and women
together
(2-16,Trailstalker) Seems like the celts/picts had the right of it all
along.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I agree totally...the truth presented without
preparation is considered a lie by the uninformed.
Too bad that the rug got slipped out from under
them early on while they were out doing the work.
(2-16,Trailstalker) Each sex has their own gifts and each sex has their
own responsiblities and one without the other leaves
a hole in the weaving of life.
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Well folks next week we talk about the Christianizing
of the Celts
(2-14,Nancy) And I will be sure to be here, OD>
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) TS> Good points, one and all!
(2-9,Empress) me, too, OD
(2-16,Trailstalker) <GGG> me too! cant wait!!!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) I will be glad to see all of you next week!<GG>
(2-5,cherokee) thanks od !
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Thanks, OD! Another great workshop!!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Thank you Cherokee!!
(2-14,Nancy) excellent Searles, my friend.
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) And I loved all that neat stuff you said about women
at the beginning! <G>
(2-16,Trailstalker) R/G Thank you kindly. Would like to continue this
conversation at another time...
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) yeo, will be there. Kudos on anther great workshop,
OD
(2-9,Empress) I missed that
(2-15,O'Dubhain) You're all certainly welcome. It's everyone here that
really makes things happen.
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) TS> Maybe we should start a thread??
(2-16,Trailstalker) OD> wonderful as usual. You've got us spoiled by
the quality we get on Monday nights. Thanks.
(2-14,Nancy) OD, we have something to tell you?????
(2-15,O'Dubhain) hahahah!
(2-16,Trailstalker) <GGG>
(2-15,O'Dubhain) <------can't wait!
(2-5,cherokee) <BEG>
(2-14,Nancy) oh, I'm sure. TS......go ahead.
(2-5,cherokee) yes!!!
(2-16,Trailstalker) moi?
(2-14,Nancy) yes yououou
(2-5,cherokee) vous!!!!
(2-8,Papa John) Please post xscript soon-I missed most of it!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Tu?
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) vous?
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) Hey, Gaelic, pa-lease!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Ok will do Papa John<G>
(2-9,Empress) well?
(2-8,Papa John) TNX, pal.
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) chi? (not Gaelic, but Welsh)
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Libh?
(2-14,Nancy) TS!!!!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) DHUIT?
(2-16,Trailstalker) THERE IS A HAPPY BIRTHDAY PARTY IN THE VB&G!!!!
EVERYONE'S INVITED. Come on and lets boogie!!!!!
(2-5,cherokee) i could speak
(2-5,cherokee) cherokee and
(2-5,cherokee) confuse everyone!
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) cher> go for it!
(2-5,cherokee) PARTY!!!!!!!
(2-14,Nancy) Happy Birthday OD!
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) too late, we're already confused!
(2-11,Freepowder) gone to the bar!!!
(2-14,Nancy) we love you!
(2-8,Papa John) Go for it!
(2-16,Trailstalker) We've filled the hot tub with cool ale in OD's honor!!!
(2-3,Rhianna/Golias) YEAH!!
(2-14,Nancy) gone to bar, yes.
(2-9,Jeremy & Marion) see ya in the bar!
(2-15,O'Dubhain) Thank you all!<GGG>
see you in the tub!